So, I was asked to create watch faces for a fee, and was wondering if we are allowed to do that? Can we get paid for our work, like $2 per face for example? Just wondering.
I think there’s nothing wrong earning some money with your own creations. As soon that you are using someone else’s artwork you need to have his/her permission. In watchfaces this can be difficult because parts of the designs are often created by different people. Even using and publishing these parts should have you credit them. Selling their graphics is out of the question without permission.
I’m a photographer, and I’ve had several occurances of people, newspapers and websites publishing my work without knowledge and permission. If the publication was commercial, they all received a hefty bill. Lucky for me they all paid.
As an addition. Copying a commercial desing like I.g. a Tag Heuer and askubg money for that could get you into serious copyright issues.
That’s why these warchfaces are often called a hommage to the brand and only a donation is asked and not a fee.
@Kenneth_Tan so if you photoshop or alter a picture (as i did for the carrera’s i posted)and then complete it with markers etc… you can be hit with copyright issues? Isnt there a window where if you change a picture slightly you are clear from copyright infringement because it is not the same anymore…? As far as the donation goes, its a good idea but I don’t see many people being courteous when they can get something working for free. this also goes back to the discussion you and I had a little while ago about Zooper Pro, free and paid apps
The link below relates to the UK but covers some generally accepted issue…
@Andrew_Davis Everything covered in that link. And most of it is applicable world wide.
Take a good look at the I’ve changed the design so now it’s mine or not the original anymore. One of the biggest myths in art creation history.
Especially commercially exploiting designs owned by big companies can get you in deep financial problems. They have got deep pockets to ruin your existance. And with good reason. Don’t steal someone else’s creation.
I think you are much better off using the “donate to me” function for any offers of payment in this realm of work.
This is much more of a “I am happy if you would like to contribute to me” type deal rather than “I will do this if you pay me xx” situation. @Kenneth_Tan and @Andrew_Davis raise some interesting points and I am sure @Lokifish_Marz would have something to say about it as well.
All I can say is that the donation method is a much safer way to work, in my opinion…
@Pablo_Eleven_Pablo11 Putting aside the issue of copying watches and/or using trademarks… I feel that if someone makes an original watchskin then it is wholly reasonable that they are able to ask a charge for their work… I request that we have a special Group section for this…
Importantly, it would also enable designers to keep a track of who is downloading their work (something that we are unable to currently do here)… they may even consider adding “non commercial use terms” if they wanted to…
I believe that this would lead to a lot more original and creative work… and if a company did see a watchskin that they liked then they could negotiate directly with the designer for the use of that work…
I also believe that there will be a lot more quality watchskins for companies to choose from (in this section) - more than in the free-non-attributable section…
@Andrew_Davis You’re correct. If the watch-skin is publicly displayed, it’s in the open. No watchmaker can deny stealing it.
On the other hand, publishing a watch-skin should be bound to rules of conduct regarding copyright issues and use of other designers parts. Watch hands being the most common borrowed items. Also icons from commercial packs.
@Andrew_Davis I have no issue with this idea personally. However the management overhead of a situation like this would be significant - I’m guessing…
What did you have in mind - how do you see this idea working - in our situation?
Secure areas are not a practical possibility in a G+ community so this is a very tricky proposal.
If it can be implemented realistically here then I am all for it.
So to be clear - I like the idea.
Practical implementation of this idea - I will have to see what @Lokifish_Marz has to say on the matter.
@Pablo_Eleven_Pablo11 At the moment we have two areas that watchfaces can be showcased… “Custom Faces” and “Commercial Use Faces”…
“Custom Faces” are a mixed bag of homage, original, free and donation lead work…
“Commercial Use Faces” is an area where companies can cherry pick for free but is also an area for designers to (possibly) have their work widely showcased on future watch releases, albeit as a non-attributed work (!)…
Designers have little or no control over the download, distribution and use of work in either of these areas…
An alternative area that gave designers the option to sell their work would give them:
- more in the way of control
- a better reason to create original designs
- the chance to buy a coffee
Pricing would be market lead - too expensive, no buyers… Paypal, although not perfect, is convenient…
And the normal house rules would apply as usual… I don’t see much in the way of extra work…
@Kenneth_Tan This is EXACTLY the situation we currently have… you are imagining extra work
Custom and commercial areas will both eventually host WF that are fully or partially stolen designs or even legally trademarked designs. Checking that will put a huge responsibility on moderators. Don’t know legal impact of responsibility on content of their community. I’d rather see everyone post his own cloudshare and possible get their post deleted than the moderators have to administer this kind of collection. Hosting firmware with consent of the owners on a community cloud storage is a totally different matter, which I support.
That’s my angle in this discussion.
@Andrew_Davis ok - well as I said - I am in favor of this idea. Just not sure about the nuts and bolts so to speak. If it’s easy enough then I don’t have an issue with it at all.
The area for donated work also needs some clarification.
I’m sorry I have not been fully across all this lately from the community perspective. I have been recovering from surgery and I’m just coming back in now.
One thing I would like to clear up though - the area for donated works for commercial use (possibly).
This work has to be left “as is” by the user - for example the designer’s name etc has to be left in place on the “preview image” for the recognition to remain in place.
I know there is work to be done here as the community is morphing slightly to accommodate future growth, possibilities and member needs.
We need a little time to work all this out.
That said - now is the perfect time to explore the possibility of the idea you have.
Please bear with us - we are working on it
I must admit - what you describe is along the lines of how I was hoping to deal with that type of scenario.
The open “donated faces” dumping ground was more about preventing miss-understandings in the future
@Kenneth_Tan You’re still making this too complicated… there are already a set of rules in place and a system that works very well…
Quote - “Custom and commercial areas will both eventually host WF that are fully or partially stolen designs or even legally trademarked designs”…
And you can’t honestly be saying that all of the current watchskins in the “Custom Faces” area are original… ?
Quote - “I’d rather see everyone post his own cloudshare and possible get their post deleted than the moderators have to administer this kind of collection”
And that, is exactly what I propose… we do thing the same way as we currently do - except that instead of having a “donations” link the designer has a “buy me” link… and to help clarify a designers position it would be a good idea to have their skins posted into a specific sales related area… the designer would then have some say over, to who and under what terms she/he sold his design(s)…
@Lokifish_Marz Hi LM…
Quote - " I could set up something but it requires that I take responsibility for all transactions…"
Why would you need to take responsibility for all transaction - do you currently take a similar responsibility for all donations?
@Lokifish_Marz I think that consideration should be given to:
no trademarked watckskins eg Omega, Tag, Timex (other than a creators own trademark/logo)
no copies of existing watchskins without consent eg Wear, XDA
non-conforming watchskins to be immediately removed and the “penalty box” rule applied
There are plenty of opportunities for members to make their own watch copies… I would like to see true original creative talent being recognised…
I’m really glad this conversation is taking off with many interested individuals. I’m sure that with everyone’s assistance something positive will come out of this. My question now is, what if you take something “inspired” by a popular watch maker, remove their logo and create it…? A perfect example is this image. It says Casio, but we all know that this is the Rolex Submariner. We have two huge companies, one stealing the others design…/ What happens in this case? We see it all the time, popular designs being “re-created” with another logo. On the other hand, we are creating digital watch skins, so the people actually interested in these models will never be a Rolex customer, so can someone really be held accountable for a digital creation?